EBB 287 – A Positive Hospital Waterbirth Story with EBB Childbirth Class Graduate, Katrina Hull

Rebecca Dekker:

Hi everyone. On today’s podcast, we’re going to talk with Katrina Hull, a graduate of the EBB childbirth class about her positive hospital water birth story.

Welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. My name is Rebecca Dekker and I’m a nurse with my PhD and the founder of Evidence Based Birth®. Join me each week as we work together to get evidence-based information into the hands of families and professionals around the world. As a reminder, this information is not medical advice ebbirth.com/disclaimer for more details.

Hi everyone, and welcome to today’s episode of the Evidence Based Birth® podcast. Today I’m so excited to welcome a graduate of the Evidence Based Birth® childbirth class. Before we get started, I want to make you aware that we will be talking about postpartum hemorrhage. Is there any other detailed content or trigger warnings, we always post them in the description or show notes that go along with this episode. And now I’d like to introduce our guest, Katrina Hull. Katrina, pronouns she/her and her partner Tyler are graduates of the Evidence Based Birth® childbirth class with EBB instructor Marnellie Bishop in Oregon. Katrina Hull is a former high school math and engineering teacher with over a decade of experience in the classroom. She taught a lot of different courses ranging from intro to engineering to AP Statistics, and she sponsored afterschool programs and teams, including the McKay High School Invent team of 11 students that traveled with their invention to present at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Katrina also served on planning committees for events and partnerships and received awards such as the Misa Teacher of the Year and the Crystal Apple honoree. Her passion for education and entrepreneurship has led her to her current role as coordinating producer at PBS NewsHour Classroom where she develops lesson materials and resources for integrating invention education into classrooms across the country. Katrina educated herself through the EBB childbirth class, and she’s here to share her very exciting hospital water birth story with us and also talk a little bit about what it was like to receive antibiotics for groupie strep and medications for postpartum hemorrhage. Katrina, welcome to the Evidence Based Birth® podcast.

Katrina Hull:

Hi, Rebecca.

Rebecca Dekker:

We’re so happy to have you here on the other side of your birth story sharing your experience with us. And it’s always fun to hear a hospital water birth story because 10 years ago they were almost unheard of and now we’re starting to see a few more of them happen throughout the country. So can we go back towards when did you find out about Evidence Based Birth® and how did you become involved in taking the childbirth class?

Katrina Hull:

Well, my background is in education and I love learning. I have this picture of a stack of 17 books that I felt like I had to read before I gave birth, and we had hired a doula because I knew that I wanted somebody to support me through leading up to my pregnancy, but I needed somebody to support my husband while I was giving birth. So the doula was a perfect answer and I was asking her what classes she recommended, and she said, “Marnellie Bishop is hysterical and so intelligent, and she comes with a lot of evidence and a lot of background knowledge with this class that she teaches through Evidence Based Birth®. And so right away I contacted Marnellie and she came and did, at the time it was still COVID lockdown, so she did a private session with my husband and I and we learned so much and had such a great time with her.

Rebecca Dekker:

That’s awesome. And what was your experience like taking the class? So she did a private session with you then did you go on to do all the online videos and more meetings with Marnellie?

Katrina Hull:

We did a crash course, if I remember correctly, and we did all the full package. So we watched all the videos. We did a few, I think we did some Zoom meetings together, and then she actually came in person because she was like, “There are a couple things that it’s just helpful to be there in person.” And I was so, so grateful that she made that drive to our home. I think that class for me was a great refresher of all of the things that I had been learning and reading about, and I had time to consume all that information.

My husband, on the other hand had not consumed that information in the same way that I did, and the class gave us an opportunity to just dialogue together and ask questions and ask Marnellie questions. And there were things that I got to learn along the way and it felt like a full package as opposed to just an individual in a corner reading a book and coming up with some information. I appreciated all the research that was right, it was happening in line. There was a lot of COVID information that was coming out, and I think the relevancy of all of it was really helpful.

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah. Did you have any fears about giving birth? You were doing all this education. Was that driven just by a desire to learn or did you have any anxieties about giving birth?

Katrina Hull:

Well, okay, so we have to go back to 12 year old Katrina, a long, long time ago. It was a high school youth retreat or junior high youth retreat. And there was a camp counselor that I had, and I don’t remember why we were talking about childbirth at a camp, but she brought it up and she was talking about how she loved giving birth and she would give birth to everyone’s babies if she could, and she had a pain-free birth. And I was like, “What is this lady saying? This is crazy.” I’d never heard anything like that in my entire life, but it stuck with me so much so that when I found out we were pregnant, I was like, “That’s what I want. It’s possible and I’m going to go find out how to make it happen.” So I think it was just really my desire to consume information was like, how do I have and prepare for the best birth possible?

Rebecca Dekker:

Oh, that’s interesting. So it was driving you more from a desire to feel empowered and to have that amazing experience that that counselor had told you about so many years ago rather than a fear of the things that could go wrong. What about your husband? Did he have any anxieties or fears?

Katrina Hull:

So I am a natural optimist and he’s a natural pessimist. He’ll say he’s a realist. So yes, he had all the fears and I think through the Evidence Based Birth® class, there were some things that he had not even thought of and he was like, “Now I have all these other things that I need to worry about.” But it gave him a chance to think through what might happen. And in the moment when we were at the hospital giving birth, he knew like, “Oh, when they say this, here’s the cascading effect that happens.” So I think for both the person that wants the positive view of things and the person that’s like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so scared,” that class hit right down the middle for both of us.

Rebecca Dekker:

Was there anything that sticks out in your memory of something you learned from Marnellie or the class that you were like, oh, I’m going to use this, or you ended up using it, what was something really valuable you took away?

Katrina Hull:

I think the number one thing for us was within that class was knowing that we could ask questions and that there were many different options and we could hear a thing, but we could feel empowered to say, “Why do you think that? Okay, that’s cool. Great, thank you healthcare provider that’s working in this field that’s dedicated your life to this. Can you teach me more about it?”

And I think just knowing some of the lingo, and I am in the world of education, so there’s like thousands of acronyms that you just kind of have to learn in that world. And I felt like walking into the birth world, I was just in this new space of acronyms. So knowing what those things were really just made me more of an intelligent question asker. The other thing I think that was huge for us, I had a water birth and I knew through the class that if I got out of the tub and out of the birth pool that I would most likely not be able to get back in. And that was something that definitely was in my mind as I was in the tub and the midwife was asking me, “Do you feel like you’re okay in here? Do you want to get out?” And I was like, if I get out, “I’m not going to have a waterbirth.”

Rebecca Dekker:

They were talking about close to the end, right?

Katrina Hull:

[inaudible].

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah because you can get out… I want to make sure our listeners, you can get in and out of the tub, but you’re talking about during the actual birth or pushing phase when you’re getting close to the end, if you get out, it might be hard to get back in.

Katrina Hull:

Yeah. At that time, the midwife had said to another nurse, she was like, “No, I’m not going to go check in on that patient. We’re going to be catching a baby soon.” So we were down to the last few moments.

Rebecca Dekker:

Okay. Okay, good. And that’s really helpful to know. And I think that self-advocacy in terms of asking questions, it’s a simple but really powerful way of having more power and agency over your body and your situation. And I do love that we’ve built that into the class, like practicing and rehearsing, asking questions and actually acting it out with your instructor so that you just keep gaining that confidence and it gets easier every time. It’s like teaching a child how to place an order at a restaurant or a fast food place. The first time they do it, they’re terrified to tell them what they want. Then as they get older and you keep making them do it for themselves, then they’re speaking with perfect confidence. And I like that feeling that your voice is growing in confidence in the healthcare setting. So let’s go back to your pregnancy. You were taking the childbirth class, you had a doula. What other plans did you have for your birth? Where were you giving birth, with who and what were your hopes?

Katrina Hull:

Well, my husband has some lifetime trauma that’s happened. His birth mom died when he was around eight years old, and then his dad remarried and his stepmom passed away tragically, and he was there when it happened. So he has a lot of experience with the healthcare system not working well and being in a hospital setting that is not state of the art and not being able to care for his loved ones in a way that he could because he doesn’t have any medical training. So I knew that we needed to be in one of the top of the line hospitals in our area, if at all possible. I wanted to give birth in a birth center and I wanted to have this magical experience, and I knew that my body was made to give birth and I wanted to find something that was almost a marriage of the two. Like wait, a birth center and a hospital, how do those things work together?

Because often you talk about OBs being so strict and this is the way that they have to be, and you are kind of set up when you go into the hospital, you don’t really have these choices. And so I did a lot of hospital research, like reading the hospital websites of what their birth space was like and what their team was like. And we landed on going up to Portland, Oregon to OHSU. It’s a teaching hospital. So I thought that they would have best practices and they would know things that were coming out that maybe were new. And they also had a robust midwifery team, not just one or two midwives. They have a full team that does all prenatal care. And I decided that was my prenatal team that I wanted to have. And then they also did labor and delivery. What’s really special about that team?

The midwifery team and the obs, they work on the same floor. So it really is like you have kind of the best of both worlds if you’re not a high risk pregnancy, staying with the midwifery team seemed ideal. So we were able, fortunately we had that option. It is 45 minutes from our home, so there was a commitment to, okay, we’re going to be in labor and we’re going to make a long commute to the hospital. But knowing that people all over the world don’t have medical professionals that are 10 minutes down the road. So knowing that that was possible I think made me feel a little bit better. But then knowing that we were in the best of the best space to give birth, it was really exciting for me.

The midwifery team does their training in water birth, so they are able to do hospital water births. A lot of times I was finding that a hospital said that you could do labor in the bath, in the tub, in the water, but you couldn’t actually deliver in the water. And I had been watching some positive birth experiences through Instagram, and I had seen people giving birth in the water and just thought that was so fascinating, and it just looked so calm and relaxing, and I just felt like that’s how we’re meant to give birth in this peaceful manner. And so I was really excited to give it a shot.

Rebecca Dekker:

Mm-hmm. You mentioned when you wrote into EBB that you were carrying GBS, and so what were your thoughts when you found out that you tested positive for GBS?

Katrina Hull:

I said, “Okay, so what’s that?” But at the time, I really like it when they test for it, they do the urine test at the beginning to test for it, and then what is that, 36 weeks that they do the vaginal swab for that. And so when they swabbed for it, at that point, I had gone through the learning. I knew that that was a thing that could come up. So when they said that, I was like, “Oh, okay, that just means antibiotics.” And I thought that I had gone through and kind of weighed my options of do I push back on the antibiotics, do I not? And it felt at the time getting antibiotics made the most sense for us and our family. And so I was just like, “Oh, okay. When I get to the hospital, we’ll do a round of antibiotics. Great. Next.”

Rebecca Dekker:

So did you feel prepared then when you’re getting towards the end of pregnancy? What was your mindset like? Because it seems like you’re approaching this in a really positive way.

Katrina Hull:

I did HypnoBirthing®. My doula had recommended that I listened to, there’s this gentle birth HypnoBirthing® app that I listen to and I listen to it every night. And I know it sounds, in some ways I think people might feel like it feels a little like, Ooh, that’s a little Oregon for me. But really, I just felt like I needed to be mentally prepared. I had done a lot of research and learning about people that give birth, they’re not even fully there, your body does what it needs to do. And I think at that point, I had realized my body was meant for birth and with or without me, I was going to give birth to a baby. So I wanted to be on the same team as my baby. And I think I went into birth with a very positive mindset because I had been doing so much mental work and preparation, and there were things that were really scary to me.

I wanted to have an unmedicated birth, and I was like, “But how do I do that? How do I cope with the pain?” Well, my doula, she coached me and said, “Katrina, in this moment, how are you doing?” And in this moment, I was fine, and I just kept carrying that through the whole birth process. So I think you are picking up on something that’s really true to my core. I approached birth through a positive lens. It wasn’t a scary thing. I knew that the baby was the perfect size for my body because I had been hearing that for weeks and weeks and weeks, whether it was my conscious mind or my subconscious as I slept, those things really were helpful to me.

Rebecca Dekker:

And I think you bring up a good point with the self-hypnosis or meditation, those different, we call mind control methods that you can use to prepare for birth. There is research on self-hypnosis. It’s a little hard to study because the past trials on it weren’t super great. They use these really simple hypnosis techniques. They weren’t the more in depth classes and programs that people tend to do today.

But one study I found that was really interesting is that self-hypnosis when combined with waterbirth can be a really good combination for pain control. It’s almost like the self-hypnosis helps you relax more deeply into the water and to release any tension you might be holding. And I do know personally myself, I took Hypnobabies® for my second and I used it again with the third. And there’s different programs and methods out there, and there’s a lot of, also, in addition to taking a class, there’s books, there’s audio tracks you can use, and I agree. I used to fall asleep every night to some of the Hypnobabies® tracks, and it was really helpful for relieving anxiety. And so anybody who’s out there struggling with that, and that’s an option you can consider. So you were doing this almost like daily meditative self-hypnosis to fall asleep and take us to the end of your pregnancy. When did labor begin? How did you know it was starting?

Katrina Hull:

I didn’t know that it was starting. So Friday, it was a Friday morning, and I felt like I was getting some pre period cramping, and I was like, “Oh, Braxton Hicks. Okay, great. That means my baby’s going to show up in three weeks from now.” Because through all my learning, this is my first pregnancy, I felt like I knew that things were going to go later than expected. So I decided, well, I can sit here and I can think about it and I can stew or I can go and get my nails done. So I opted to go and get my nails done, and I went to the nail salon and sat by a lady who told me about how terrible her birth experience was and how she would never do it again.

Rebecca Dekker:

She saw her pregnant and she just started telling you her negative birth story.

Katrina Hull:

And I told her that I feel like I’m having Braxton Hicks and she told me all this negative stuff, and Rebecca, you’d be so proud of me. All those negative comments just fluffed off my shoulders. And I was like, well, that was you. That’s not me. And I just enjoyed that time of being there. Someone had told me to schedule a spot anyway for my due date because I probably wasn’t going to give birth on my due date. So that was already in place, but we weren’t even to my due date yet. So then after I sat by that lady, my nail technician, he said, oh, the last pregnant lady that was in my chair, she actually went and gave birth after she got her nails done as well. And I thought, “Huh, maybe there’s something to this.” But I really just tried to lean into the knowing that I just needed to keep my body relaxed.

And for me, that’s being around other people and that being in nature. And so after I got my nails done, I went for a walk and I called my doula and I was like, Hey, here’s what’s going on. I’m still kind of feeling this. It feels like it’s getting a little more consistent, but not consistent enough to write anything down, to track anything. But I just have a feeling. And at the time, my husband was, he had just started his first week of a new job. He was finishing up as an adjunct professor and he was teaching an online class, so he had final exams that were happening, and all of this stuff was happening on Friday night. He had a full day of work on Saturday, and I had a day of hiking planned.

And by the evening, I said to him, “I think you need to cancel your Saturday plans. It doesn’t feel like this is going away. I think we’re going to have a baby this weekend.” So that was kind of how we got to the end of pregnancy and things started.

Rebecca Dekker:

Mm-hmm.So what happened next?

Katrina Hull:

I decided to go to sleep because I knew that that was going to be a thing that would be difficult and uncomfortable. It had been uncomfortable just being pregnant and the number of pillows and oh my goodness, the night wakings and all those things. And so I decided to just preemptively sleep on the sofa and our living room and have my husband go and sleep in the bedroom. And I was like, “Get as much sleep as possible because I don’t know what’s going to happen the next 72 hours.” And I went to sleep on the sofa for a little bit, and then I woke up due to contractions just kind of starting to pick up a little bit more.

And Marnellie had suggested that one of the first things that we do that I could take a shower, and she was like, “Just take a shower. It’s probably the last one you’re going to have for a while, and labor, it’s a marathon. It’s not this short little thing for most people. And so do things that make you relaxed and make you feel ready and prepared.” So I took a shower and I shaved my legs because that makes me feel good. And so I was able to just kind of do those things and just kind of start to find a rhythm.

And by Saturday afternoon, the doula showed up at our house because labor had just continued, I guess, I don’t know when it goes from pre-labor to labor, but it really just… In the Evidence Based Birth® class, there’s the different charts of what labor looks like. And for me, it really was just this gentle ramp. It was just kind of picking up and like, oh, yeah, we’re doing it. On one of my walks, some of the neighborhood women said, “Oh, when’s that baby coming?” And I said, “I think probably tomorrow.” And they were like, “Oh, okay.” But I had this, my mama instinct started kicking in of knowing my body is doing what it needs to do, and it just felt like I was prepared and ready.

We then continued laboring at home. The doula showed up, I think about 3:00 in the afternoon. And by this time, contractions were to the point where we were starting to time some things. I had referenced earlier, the Gentle Birth app that I used, they also have a contraction timer, which was ideal for us because then my husband didn’t need to stress about writing down times. I didn’t need to look at a clock. I could just press a go button and I could hear positive affirmations through my contractions, which I think at the beginning was so just calming and relaxing for me.

I remember some of the affirmations, hearing them say “What you’re doing is really difficult. I know this is difficult. You’re doing a fantastic job. It’s almost over.” And just getting my brain in the right head space for how do I go through those contraction waves? Those are going to come and they’re going to become more intense. But knowing what to do and how to breathe through them and what things I need to be filling my head with were really, really helpful. I turned off all notifications on my phone because I didn’t want to be distracted by what was happening in the world. I knew this was a time for me and my baby to go on a journey.

Rebecca Dekker:

And so you were laboring at home with your doula moving around, I assume eating, staying comfortable. When did you decide to go into the hospital?

Katrina Hull:

We had called the midwifery team when the doula arrived, just to give them a heads up like, “Hey, this is happening. Put us on your schedule. Is there anything that we need to be looking for? You know my chart better than I do.” Those sorts of things. And they said, “Just keep us updated.” And it was, gosh, we really lucked out because the midwife that I felt like I had connected with the most, who had been most open and honest and just very direct, which is true to my personality, she was the one that picked up on the phone. And so she was the one that was on call that night and her resident were there. And so it just kind of, once again, just another calming opportunity. And I really leaned into those moments. So there were things that were happening. Like my husband decided to heat up a burrito when I was in the middle of laboring at home.

That smelled absolutely disgusting. And I could have taken that and that could have really just irritated me to the core. And I was like, “He’s got to eat. Okay, Katrina, get back in the zone.” So we continued to labor at home. I called the midwifery team. My mental, “I need to be in the hospital when this happens,” was if I were going to vomit. And it sounds silly in a way because after leaning into what birth is, that is a common thing. When you have so many hormones coursing through your body, that is a natural response. And I think it was on an Evidence Based Birth® podcast. There was a lady that was talking about her birth experience, and she said to the team, “Hey, I don’t really need any help here at the hospital until you see me vomit. And that will mean that my baby’s coming.”

She had given birth a couple of times and knew that’s just kind of how her body reacted. So hearing that and knowing that in the back of my mind, like, oh, okay, this is normal, but also that’s a thing I like to avoid at all costs. And I was worried that I would become dehydrated, and I knew that that was just a domino effect I wanted to avoid. So our 45 minute drive, I was like, “Okay, if this is where I’m at now, physically, I’m feeling.” I talked to the midwife again on the phone and she said, “Katrina, if you feel like you need to come in, come in. You’re the one giving birth. So I don’t know what’s going on in your body. I can’t see you, and if you want to come in, come in.” And I just felt like that was my birth experience.

The people around me empowered me to go through the journey. And we made decisions together. So we hopped in the car and started our 45 minute journey. We made it five minutes down the road, and I was screaming for my husband to pull over to the side of the road. I was so uncomfortable. And that was a thing I had not mentally prepared for. I thought that I would be in labor and I would get in a car and get to the hospital. Hand waving happens in the car part, but I needed to do some more mental preparation for that. And I’m pregnant with baby number two. And you better believe I’ve already thought about that car journey. But got out of the car and found a different position in the car, and we were able to continue on in our drive. And I asked my husband to pull over again because I was so uncomfortable.

The freedom of movement that I had in my home was all of a sudden gone because I’m in this four wheel moving vehicle. And he said to me, “Katrina, if we don’t get to the hospital now, I don’t know if we’re going to make it 45 minutes.” And I remember just thinking, “No, that’s our plan. We have to do that. Okay, I will suck it up. I’m okay, in this moment, I’m okay. My body was made for this, and I can find other ways to be comfortable in this space. It’s not ideal, but we’re going to make it work.” And it was not ideal. It was probably the worst part of the labor process. It’s just not comfortable. So I love any tips that you have of riding in a car comfortably [inaudible]-

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah. Well, for our listeners, one thing you can do is you can rehearse having contractions in the car, just like we rehearse labor in the EBB Childbirth class. Some people I’ve talked to have suggested, well, there’s music therapy, aroma therapy, you can use your mental strategies, listen to self-hypnosis audio tracks. Some people have bought a TENS unit just for the use on the car ride because you can put the patches on your lower back and use the stimulation during the contractions and it can help get you through it to get you to the hospital. So you can use warm packs, cold packs, whatever feels good. So those are some just a few suggestions. And also you said, you mentioned you’re preparing for another birth, is one thing that helped me, I had one thing that did not go well at the end of my second birth, and that was the third stage.

And I talked to Kerry Tuschhoff, the founder of Hypnobabies® about it, and she recommended that with my third pregnancy that I do a lot of visualizing of the third stage going well of the placenta, delivering easily and smoothly and painlessly. And I was like, “Oh, that’s a good idea.” So those are just a few things you might want to consider is to visualize the car ride going well and to have your toolkit for the car ready to go and that sort of thing. It’s hard. It’s hard to time it though because you don’t want to get to the hospital too early. But if you have a long drive and you wait too long, it can be extremely difficult. So I can totally see the dilemma that you were experiencing there. But you made it.

Katrina Hull:

Experiencing there. But you made it. We did. We did. And when we got to the hospital, I envisioned getting to the emergency room, and then them whisking me up to labor and delivery happening really rapidly. But in my birthing mind, I was like, “Everyone is walking at such a slow pace. Is anyone worried about me?” And we finally made it from down in the ER room up to labor and delivery, and I say, finally they said, “You can walk or you can ride.” And I knew that I had been riding in a car for so long that I needed to walk. That freedom of movement, it was not sitting in a wheelchair, was not going to happen. So I had a wheelchair there, but I was going through contractions all the way up to labor and delivery, and we got up to their main desk area and we stood there for a while.

And that was also another thing that I was like, “I’m here to give a baby. Why are people not concerned?” But really this is a thing that they do every day. They’re fully prepared. They took one look at me and they knew that I was not popping a baby out in the next 30 seconds. It was okay. And looking back, I now know that I didn’t know that at the time we were able to go into triage, and the triage room was really small and uncomfortable. Once again, that was another thing. We didn’t have a chance to do a live walkthrough of this space because of COVID. So I didn’t get to visualize what a little triage room would be with my husband and a nurse and a doula in there. There wasn’t space for the bag that we brought to the hospital, that got to hang out in the hallway.

So I think those little things, looking back, I’m like, “Oh, I see why people do walkthroughs of this space. They do the visualization. That all helps you prepare.” When we got to the hospital and they checked me, I was only four centimeters dilated. And in that moment, I don’t think I could have told you what they even said because in my mind, I was at the hospital and I was going to stay and I was going to give birth to a baby. But I know that that’s crazy that they let me stay.

So I don’t know if the GBS positive was the reason. They were like, “You know what? We need to get some antibiotics in her. She’s here. We have enough time to do that. Let’s let her stay.” And in some ways, that made it so I could be in that space and I could find my rhythm in a new area. I don’t know if it was the length of the drive that they considered, or maybe it was a slow night for babies at the hospital and they had an open room, but whatever the case, they moved us into a space that had a bed and we had our private bathroom that had a tub and a shower, and we were able to just start to find our rhythm. The first, goodness, I’d say probably the first hour of being at the hospital where we had to go through triage and then into the labor room.

What is it called when they put the IV in you? What’s that little stent that gets put in?

Rebecca Dekker:

Oh, the IV catheter or the saline lock or the hep lock?

Katrina Hull:

Yeah, the lock, yes. That’s what I’m trying to think of. So as they were getting, and they were inserting that they had a lot of difficulty finding my veins, and they had a nurse tried a couple times and there was blood all over the bed. I was trying to go through my contractions as they’re trying to insert the iv. And so they brought in a more experienced individual or so they told me and I was like, “That’s fine, get it in. Let’s get this taken care of so I can move and I can get back to my rhythm.” And they were able to finally find a vein that was available and they got everything in. But once again, the blood started coming and it was just oozing out and there was just problems with it. My veins were not easily found, and that is something that I had been dealing with all of pregnancy. That is nothing new.

Rebecca Dekker:

[inaudible].

Katrina Hull:

And they’re not phlebotomists, right? They’re not doing that a million times a day. And they made it work. So they got it taken care of and they were able to flush that. And then we did a round of antibiotics. And this was something that I think Marnellie had talked about is when you go through all the antibiotics and you’re hooked up to the IV, that little stand with your IV on it, it moves. So take it with you, move as you need to. And they were good about that.

They did the fetal monitoring on my belly and they put the band around. That was really uncomfortable. And through all of this, there was just so many people trying to get all the necessary sensors and readings and all of the things that need to happen when you get to the hospital. And I felt like the gown that I came in was just like I was annoyed that I was having to adjust it for people. And so I just took it off and I was naked the rest of my labor time at the hospital. And that is not something that I am normally comfortable with, but it’s just like this other person was coming forth and the baby and the mother. So that was pretty special.

We continued to labor at the hospital and kind of found our space. We labored in the shower in the tub. The shower at my home is really consistent temperature-wise, at the hospital. It wasn’t. So there was a lot of like, “Oh, that’s too hot, too hot. Oh, too cold, too cold.” Just trying to adjust. And I looked up and I said to my doula, “How much longer? What’s my timeline look like?” And she’s like, “Katrina, I don’t know, but we’re going to be here until you have a baby.” And she said, “There are things that we can do to help you continue to progress. You’re progressing. You’re not halted in any way.” So she suggested that I do some laboring on the toilet and I did, and that was a lot of intense pressure. And I did a couple rounds of contractions laboring on the toilet, and I think that really kind of kicked things back into gear and kind of found my rhythm again that I felt like I had when I was at my home.

And then we came out of laboring in the bathroom and I found comfort laboring on the back, just kneeling on the bed and using the back of the bed just to put my hands up there and my forehead down and just be able to close my eyes. My doula had turned the lights down really, really low in the room and just kind of cocooned in into the team of my baby and me. The midwife came in and she said, “Katrina, it’s time to… Let’s start working on a different breath for your pushing breath.” And I was like, “Oh, we’re getting close?” I was just going through the waves and I was like, “I’m doing it. This is, here we go.” I had no clue what time it was. I had no clue how long I had been at the hospital, and that was on purpose. I needed to mentally not know what that timeline was because I didn’t want to become discouraged. So you were not

Rebecca Dekker:

Focused on the clock, you were focused on just making it through each wave.

Katrina Hull:

It’s true. It’s true. I closed my eyes and just really did some deep, deep breathing. I was worried that there would be some lady down the hall making a lot of noise, and I was that lady. I was making a lot of noise. And it wasn’t because it was in pain, it was a pain noise. It’s like when you go and you do deep breathing at yoga and there’s just a hum in the room. That’s what was happening. It was some diaphragm pushing and it was comfortable, and that was kind of how I was taking those waves.

After the midwife came in and told me to change my breathing up a little bit, she said, “Just take a little bit of time to relax a little bit. You’re in transition. I don’t know if she necessarily said that, but through my learning, I knew what was happening and I turned around to my labor room had been completely, I just felt like it was a completely new space and there was a spotlight above this birth tub and there were candles that my doula had placed around and it just looked like this is where someone could give birth.

This is beautiful. And they said, when you’re ready, you can get into the birth tub and that movement from the bed to the tub, I was like, “I’m going to need to think about this for a little bit because I’m really comfortable right here. I do want to get over there, but I know that involves a little bit of walking.” And walking isn’t the most comfortable thing to do at that part of labor if you’ve ever been there. We got into the tub and I was in the all fours position for a little bit because that was just comfortable to still be able to move my hips. And then I was finding that I needed some and wanted some more leverage with my feet for pushing. So I transitioned to pushing more in a, I guess a traditional position. So kind of on my back and my feet against the tub and holding onto the tub bars, whatever that’s called.

The temperature of the tub was less than ideal. So I told you the temperature of the shower was fluctuating drastically. That’s how they filled the tub. And I am not sure exactly what happened, but it was warm. And by the time I was in the tub working out, it became hot. So much so they were monitoring the temperature of the tub and they were continuing to ask me, “Katrina, do you want to get out? You’re still okay? You’re still okay?” And it was hot, but I said, “Is there anything we can do to change the temperature in the water? This is really comfortable other than the temperature.” And so they actually brought in buckets of ice from the ice machines, and they were just pouring buckets of ice in between contractions into the tub to lower the temperature of the water for me, three floors of ice completely into the tub.

I’m sorry, to those people that needed ice chips in their water at that time of night. But thank you. Thank you for that. We just continued to push and my midwife said, she was describing what areas I needed, what muscles I needed to use to push, and she was like, would it be helpful if I just touched the muscle that you need to use, where you need to be pushing? And I was like, “Yes, that would be so helpful to me.” So she did. She gave me a physical cue of here’s where you can push. And then I feel like things kind of like, oh, I know where to put my energy, because it was new. The midwife at one point, she stood up to take her gloves off. I think she had these very long gloves on, and I think maybe there was a tear or something, and I thought she was getting up to leave.

I thought she was like, “Oh, this is taking a long time.” And I was like, “No, come back. We’re having this baby.” And my husband said, it was like all of a sudden something clicked in my brain and clicked in my body, and a few minutes later, the baby popped out and came out headfirst in the water. And then we pushed again through the next contraction and the shoulders came out and the baby came right up to my chest and laid there and was calm and peaceful and not instantly crying loudly. So when they go through, they do the markers of what’s the number that a baby is given? The Apgar score? Is that what it’s called?

Rebecca Dekker:

Mm-hmm.

Katrina Hull:

I think they took off a point because she didn’t cry instantly because they say in water birth, that’s a thing that happens. And so we got a lot of skin to skin time. While we were in that room, I delivered the placenta up on the bed. So we transitioned from the pool to the bed and delivered the placenta and had some time in that room before heading up to recovery.

Rebecca Dekker:

Mm-hmm. How did it feel when your baby was on your chest and you were in the tub together with her on the outside?

Katrina Hull:

Oh my gosh, I think I screamed. I just said, “Oh, she’s here.” And we didn’t know the sex of our baby. So my husband was able to announce. That was kind of one of the surprises. I was like, “I need a carrot at the end of this.” And he said, “It’s a baby girl.” As he was crying, and I just remember holding her so close, and there’s this picture that my doula took of her, just her face is next to my face, and she’s like, “Mom, it’s so nice to finally meet you on the outside.”

Rebecca Dekker:

Aw, that’s so sweet.

Katrina Hull:

We were a perfect team.

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah, it sounds like a pretty smooth birth, but then you had a complication. Tell us what happened next.

Katrina Hull:

I declined Pitocin because the birth had gone so smoothly and I felt like my body was just doing what it was meant to do. And I just said, “Can we wait?” And my midwife said, “Yeah, we can do that, and we’ll just keep an eye on you.” So we went to our recovery room, and by this time I had gone to the bathroom a couple of times, and the nurses that were up at the recovery floor, they said, “Hey, the next time you go to the bathroom, would you please page us and we’ll help you get to the bathroom?” And I was, “Okay, sure, that works for me.” And I think they had identified that I had been bleeding more than what they felt was normal, and they just kind of wanted to have an eye on it. And when the nurse came in to help me to the toilet, she crouched down in front of me and she said, “How are you feeling Katrina?”

And I said, “I think I’m okay. I just had the best birth ever. Should I not be feeling okay?” And then I was like, “Oh, I’m feeling a little lightheaded.” And so they got me from the toilet back onto the bed, and then all of a sudden there was a team of people that had started filing into the room quickly. More nurses, my midwife showed up and she let me know what was happening. And she said, “I thought that we delivered the placenta in its entirety. There’s some extra bleeding that’s happening. We need to go in and get it taken care of.” And just said it very matter of fact, props to her for keeping me calm. And I looked up and I saw in the corner, my husband was awake, he had fallen asleep. We had gone through the whole process and he had some moments to sleep and he had woken up and they had given him our baby, and he was in the corner just sobbing and sobbing and sobbing.

And I said, “He’s not okay.” I need someone to go check on him. And when I think of this experience, I don’t think I was fearful because of the response of the team. And I think I looked to the medical professionals and I was like, “These folks are not freaking out. I don’t need to be freaking out because there’s nothing I can do right now, and I just need to keep my mind clear and I don’t know what physically they need me to do.” The midwife made a comment to, there was an OB that came in and my husband said, he overheard the midwife saying, “I need a third or fourth year. I don’t need a resident that’s fresh.” And I think for him that he has gone through a traumatic death where someone had bled and it did not go well, and it did not end up with everyone okay.

And his wife is here and he’s seen this all play out again, and people are telling him it will be okay. And he said, it was only until people left the room that he believed it would be okay. And the team that was there, they came in and they got the ultrasound equipment in to double check that they had gotten everything out of my uterus. They did a manual sweep, is that what it’s called?

Rebecca Dekker:

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Katrina Hull:

Where they go in and they check to make sure that there’s nothing in there that they have missed. They gave me Pitocin and they gave me some other drugs that they said, this is going to be a cocktail of things that will make you feel better. And I said, “Do what you need to do.” And that was why we chose to give birth in the facility that we did, that if there were complications, the team was there and was able to do what they needed to do.

It was super scary and my body felt like, whoa, that was weird because I was on this euphoric high from giving birth, and then all of a sudden all of this medical team swarmed in, how do you go from something so beautiful to feeling like, “Whoa, what do I do? How do I prepare for this?” But really my trust in the providers that I chose, it was there. And they were able to check in on me multiple times in ways that I felt seen and heard. And I felt like they were giving me the information of, “Here’s where your iron’s at Katrina, you’re still iron deficient. Should we do an iron infusion before you go, here are the pros and the cons.” And they even handed me a little piece of paper, which I felt like was very Evidence Based Birth® of them, “Here’s the research, you read about it and let us know your decision.” So I did. I had an iron infusion before I left the hospital.

Rebecca Dekker:

And you did not need a blood transfusion though?

Katrina Hull:

I did not need a blood transfusion. They were keeping an eye on it, and I was kind of lingering on that. I was toying back and forth, but then they decided that it would be okay to just go with an iron infusion.

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah. And did you get fluids? Did they turn up the fluids on your IV?

Katrina Hull:

I’m sure they did. Yeah. I’m sure that was happening. There were a lot of extra bags that started popping up. So I can’t tell you exactly. I’d have to look back at my chart to know exactly what was getting pumped into me, but there was a lot and they were taking care of me. And it did turn out in this instance.

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah. And I wanted to let our listeners know if postpartum hemorrhage concerns you or makes you anxious when you think about it, education is always a good thing. And we have several resources that EBB, there is our article on the third stage of labor. If you go to ebbirth.com/third stage, and there’s a podcast that goes along with it. It’s episode 1 31 where we talk about Pitocin during the third stage of labor, and there’s information about risk factors for postpartum hemorrhage and some links to different resources. And then we also just had an episode come out 267 with Barbie Christensen, a nurse, where we talk about the use of uterine massage and its use as either a preventive, which it’s actually not shown to be effective as a preventive, but it is effective to be used as a treatment. And so I was curious, did anybody rub on your belly to stimulate the uterus? Did you experience that?

Katrina Hull:

Yes. The midwife both up in the labor and delivery room, and in the recovery room, she pushed. She pushed and rubbed, and that sensation was really shocking. Like, oh, there’s still stuff that needs to be eliminated from my body.

Rebecca Dekker:

And that’s like it can help massage out any remaining clots, but also it’s like a form of stimulation to get the uterus to clamp down and stop the bleeding. So you’re using internal sources of stimulation with the medications, trying to get the uterus to contract and stop the bleeding. And they’re also using that outside stimulation to get the uterus to contract. So we talk about that more. And also for our birth workers listening, I think it’s really helpful to understand what are the evidence-based practices to use when someone is having a postpartum hemorrhage, just so you can advocate for your client. And in your situation, obviously they knew what they were doing. It sounds like it’s the kind of thing that they had drilled on before they knew how to handle it. The concern is if people are not taking it seriously. So we do have a training for that for our pro members that we did this year, all about advanced life support and what evidence-based treatment for postpartum hemorrhage should look like so that birth workers can recognize when it’s not happening, if that makes sense.

And speak up. And that was actually one of the first interviews we did on this podcast of an EBB childbirth class graduate was someone who experienced a postpartum hemorrhage. And I thought it was really incredible that her husband spoke up. The doctor was like, “This needs to be treated. You need to move her back to labor and delivery.” And then she wasn’t moved back and nobody really took any action, and he had to go out to the hallway and be like, somebody needs to help my wife. Now. This is serious. And nobody was addressing it. So yeah, I think another situation where you kind of had the golden ticket, you had this team that had your back, and if you hadn’t, then at least knowing how to speak up could possibly save your life.

Katrina Hull:

It’s interesting that you bring up the birth workers and the medical professionals, because my husband, when he recounts the story of the hemorrhage, he remembers it very clearly that the midwife was scolding in a very professional manner. The team of nurses that were there, she said, why is that not ready to go? Why is this not here? So understanding that the midwife knew that we needed to move quickly, I think. Really? Yeah. She was my golden ticket in many ways. Yeah.

Rebecca Dekker:

Right. So how did you two cope after that experience? How did the rest of your recovery go?

Katrina Hull:

There was some trauma work that we had to do. We called our doula and kind of talked through that experience again and talked through what emotions and feelings came up for both him and myself and knowing that for us, the birth process was not just one-sided. It was not just me. It was not just me and the baby, but my partner was, he was in it and he was there and he was watching and he felt helpless. And just kind of knowing what are the steps that we need more information on if we go through this process again? And is there any preventative work that we can do on the front side to help prevent this from happening? Is it common if someone hemorrhages once they’re going to hemorrhage again? So I think just kind of coming up with what are some of our questions around it, and then also giving space for those emotions to flow for everyone.

Rebecca Dekker:

Mm-hmm. So you went home after getting an iron infusion a few days later, and what was your postpartum experience?

Katrina Hull:

I think it was kind of leaving the hospital in the sense that they come in and they say, “Okay, whenever you’re ready to go, you can head out.” And that’s it. That’s the fanfare. And they just trust you to take this tiny human home. And I felt very inadequate and also empowered at the same time. It was just this very teeter-totter back and forth. I was able to have my placenta put into pill form, and I took my placenta. I know that has some controversy around it, but that I think really helped my emotional state, whether it was a placebo effect or not, I think it really kept my emotions. I didn’t have any postpartum anxiety or depression that hit terribly. There were a lot of emotions flowing through my body, but all things that I felt like I could still manage. I think it was nice to have a little bit of warning that the baby nights one, maybe night two, is still tired and doing well, but night three is going to be rough.

And I think when we were home, and that is the first night that you’re like, “Oh, we’re doing this. Oh, what’s wrong with my baby? My baby just won’t stop crying. What am I supposed to do?” Knowing this is normal. This baby is earth side now, and this is all new. This world is big and scary, and I’m here to help this baby stay protected and safe. So my doula was able to come in. She did a postpartum visit for us, and I had a hard time getting the baby to latch because we had a tongue tie. So we ended up doing some baby chiropractic care and just kind of releasing some of that tension within her body and did some techniques to help her breastfeed better and kind of get that figured out. So we met with a lactation consultant and we did an online meeting with that.

And I think those are some of the things that everyone’s story is so different, but when you feel like you need a thing, go get it. Don’t wait. Just go after it. Go find it. It’s out. And I think having COVID happen and having a lot of that birth world need and be required to be online, there were so many more options available pretty quickly for us. The in-person stuff had been booked, but I was able to meet with someone on the East coast and get some things resolved.

So that was kind of our support. We didn’t have visitors in our home for the first 10 days, which was a suggestion from somewhere that I really appreciated. I appreciated being able to kind of home with my family and figure out what is our new rhythm before feeling like I needed to entertain or show or maybe have some expectations that I was trying to fight against. So that was just a really special time for us. Postpartum is, it’s a lot of work, and I think having my body heal. I had hemorrhoids that were really painful, and I remember needing to sit on a little donut pillow for a while and taking some sits baths and really just trying to recover for myself, but then also figure out this new world.

Rebecca Dekker:

Yeah, you’re right, recovery is a big deal. Plus you’re learning how to adjust to life with a newborn, and so you needed support. Not guests, household guests, but support. And before we go, do you have any final words of advice or wisdom for our listeners who may be pregnant or expecting?

Katrina Hull:

I think the mantras that run through my brain and have continued to follow me as I get to raise my daughter, the first one is I’m calm, confident, and in control. And the moments that I feel like my world is spinning out of control, whether that be through the birth experience or through my child deciding she doesn’t want her diaper changed or who knows what’s happening, that is something that I replay in my mind because I can affect my own emotions and I can hold on to what’s going on in my brain. I also think my other top piece of advice for people is go find and watch things that are positive experiences. Go find what would be ideal.

Maybe it doesn’t happen. I don’t think I had he hemorrhaging on my ideal list. I know for a fact it wasn’t there. But then when those things happen, you’re like, “Okay, this happened. It’s not ideal, but here’s the information that I have. I have my ideal, I have what would be a dream, and then let’s have plan B, C, D, E.” Enough. You can do it. Millions of people have done it before you were made for this.

Rebecca Dekker:

Thank you so much Katrina, and again, I encourage our listeners to go to ebbirth.com/third stage to learn more about the prevention of postpartum hemorrhage, as well as other resources you can go to learn about it. And thank you again for following along as we listen to Katrina’s amazing and empowering birth story. I’ll see you all next week. Bye.

This podcast episode was brought to you by the Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth class. This is Rebecca speaking. When I walked into the hospital to have my first baby, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Since then, I’ve met countless parents who felt that they too were unprepared for the birth process in navigating the healthcare system. The next time I had a baby, I learned that in order to have the most empowering birth possible, I needed to learn the evidence on childbirth practices. We are now offering the Evidence Based Birth® childbirth class totally online. In your class, you will work with an instructor who will skillfully mentor you and your partner in evidence-based care, comfort measures and advocacy, so that you can both embrace your birth and parenting experiences with courage and confidence. Get empowered with an interactive online childbirth class you and your partner will love. Visit evidencebasedbirth.com/childbirthclass to find your class now.